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Support our work ► http://www.paypal.me/JungNaiv Our guest is Ami Ayalon. He is a former commander of the Israeli Navy, former director of the Shin Bet (Israel's domestic intelligence service), and a former Labor Party member of the Knesset. Born in 1945, Ayalon became one of Israel’s most prominent security figures and later one of the most outspoken voices from within the Israeli security establishment arguing for a political solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. After leaving the Shin Bet, he co-initiated a joint Israeli-Palestinian peace proposal with Palestinian intellectual Sari Nusseibeh and has continued to speak publicly about occupation, security, democracy and the future of Israel. In this episode, Ami talks about his years in the military and intelligence services, the logic and moral cost of war, the Israeli occupation of Palestinian territory, the war in Gaza, and why he believes Israel has failed to recognize its own victory. He discusses the failures of Israeli leadership, the need to understand one’s enemy, and why he argues that Israel’s long-term security depends on Palestinian freedom and a political horizon for both peoples. Please support our independent journalism: Bank account: Jung & Naiv (oder "Jung und Naiv" oder "Jung + Naiv") IBAN: DE854 3060 967 104 779 2900 GLS Gemeinschaftsbank or via PayPal ► http://www.paypal.me/JungNaiv #Israel #Palestine #MiddleEast 00:00 Teaser 01:44 Who is Ami Ayalon? 03:18 Rabin’s assassination and the path to Shin Bet 05:22 Navy vs. Shin Bet: black-and-white thinking and grey zones 08:47 Why Ayalon thinks politics is built wrong 12:20 Responsibility instead of blame 15:16 Kibbutz, family and duty after 1967 20:03 Naval Commando, war experience and lost friends 23:00 “The longest war in modern history” 25:18 Why Ayalon says Israel won the war in 2002 28:52 Zionism, settlements and security 33:30 The Holocaust, biblical places and the difficulty of partition 36:50 Israeli mistrust and the belief in military power 39:58 Gaza, Lebanon and the refusal to end wars 44:39 Is Gaza a genocide? Ayalon’s answer 50:06 Netanyahu, power and “Hamas as an asset” 55:27 Palestinian citizens of Israel and lost trust in democracy 60:00 The courts, protest and civil disobedience 65:34 Shin Bet loyalty: democracy or the prime minister? 69:45 Understanding the enemy: interrogation, fear and humanity 71:13 Israeli security only with Palestinian hope 75:10 Iran, Sun Tzu and failing to understand the enemy 80:01 Ayalon’s message to German politicians 85:00 Europe’s role and the Arab Peace Initiative
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